When one of Britain's foremost academics and intellectuals, Colin MacCabe, talks about his life, an extraordinary film plays before the listener's eyes. A long-time producer and writer who started his career by studying literature, studied with the philosophers Jacques Derrida, Roland Barthes and Louis Althusser. During his career, he seems to have met and befriended everyone who left a mark on British, French and other European and world film and art history. Among them are directors Derek Jarman, Jean-Luc Godard, Chris Marker and thinker John Berger. We met to talk about him, their friendship with Tilda Swinton and the latest documentary film "Times of Kensi: Four Portraits of John Berger", which will be shown at the Vilnius Documentary Film Festival, in London, in a small coffee shop in Notting Hill.
"Seasons of Kensi: Four Portraits of John Berger" tells the story of the creator and critic who changed the way many think. What was the meeting between you, Tilda and John like in this creative process?
Previously, Tilda and I made a film about Derek Jarman. During the premiere, in America, when we were saying goodbye, we also thought about John. We all met on the set three decades ago and became inseparable friends. Although, to be honest, I wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the film at the beginning. I had vowed never to ask for money from British television. Also, I didn't want to make this film conventionally. I've created enough of these in my career. I thought I could give it to a group of students, give the cameras to them. I thought we could do something like the movie "Derek" to talk about his life. I called John and made an offer, and he replied: "I would really like you and Tilda to visit Kensi." But the least I want to talk about is my past life." He offered to come over, cook together, go shopping and see what would come of it.
Why the four-part portrait of John?
The film had to convey what it meant to be around him, to participate in those pleasant and exciting conversations. When we arrived in Kensi, we expected to just talk for a couple of days. Then there was a storm, we were covered in snow. Tilda and John started talking about their parents. After returning to the hotel, Tilda said: "It was a film about winter." Three more films will have to be made." Later, when I presented the first tape in Telluride (JAV), after the screening, a person approached me and asked about the other three films mentioned. Asked how much they would cost. I replied, ``about two hundred dollars.'' Checked whether I already have the money. I answered no. Then he said: "Now you have." Three more films were thus born.
Each of them reveals a unique aspect of John's life, his connection with people and nature, and his work. How much were these different film forms influenced by circumstances?
We planned to talk about politics in the second tape. A week before the shoot, when all the flights were booked, we got the news that John's wife, Beverly, was gone. I had to make an immediate decision. I thought, I really won't go there myself, it doesn't make any sense. I suggested traveling to the students: don't disturb John, film Kensi's animals, spring, what was happening around. When we got the money, we used that material to make a film about Berger and the animals. The third film is about politics. I thought that if it was just me and John, it would just be a boring discussion between two old men. We invited some young people and shot a TV movie in the style of the 1950s. The last bar is called "Harvest". Tilda herself wanted to create it from the beginning. He knew it would be a story about children.
This film (or these films) can be viewed in very different ways…
When I worked on installations with creators Chris Marker and Isaac Julien, I got to know the term "time-based art". So each film about John is a separate work of art based on time. They should have been shown separately, in museums. However, I was hoping that they would be able to exist all together as one film. I remember in 2015 we went to a luxury cinema and watched all the movies one by one. It was one of the happiest moments of my life. It was a movie! The project is so successful in theaters that the tapes have not yet been shown separately.
What did this film mean to John?
We didn't talk much about it, but a lot was clear and unspoken. We started filming Kensi's endless rhythms of seasons, but we captured John's final seasons. In the end, it was a calculation, not an endless repetition. The film chronicled the end of his life in Kensi.
And he did it very exceptionally: with warmth, intimacy. It is easy to sense the strong friendship of its creators.
John was an extremely nice person. It used to be that he would meet you, look at you for a long time. He was the world's greatest tempter! Also, especially in the first movie, you end up in his kitchen. This is a very intimate space. Three decades ago, Tilda, John and I met while filming the tape "Play me Something". We have known each other for a long time and very well. I remember once I worked on a film story about the photographer Sebastião Salgado called "The Specter of Hope". Everything was very complicated, it seemed like an absolute mess. After a very long time, I called John and asked if he could come and help me. And he arrived! The film about John was truly a labor of love. The students were also very involved in it. John was one of the most attractive people I've ever met: no status and absolute focus on you. Talking to him, you had to become "more alive" to listen to what he had to say. And when you spoke, you had to think about what you were saying because he really listened.
How did literature lead you to the world of cinema?
It was a happy coincidence. I was a literature student. I studied at the École Normale Supérieure in Paris, attended lectures by Jacques Derrida and Louis Althusser. When I came back from France I was 24. That summer I was asked to lunch by two older guys. Everything looked very cool, I remember we had lunch at one of the first Chinese restaurants on Gerrard Street (in London). They mentioned that they publish the film magazine "Screen". He asked if I would like to join the editorial team. I should have said no, because I didn't know anything about cinema then, but I said yes. Partly because the only creator I knew about this and that was Jean-Luc Godard. He was a director with a capital letter for left-wing avant-garde creators. Thus began three or four wonderful years of my life. I am still convinced that the texts printed in Screen magazine are the best film criticism in the English language. So I learned a little about cinema while working there. Later, when I was in my thirties, I was teaching at Cambridge, and I had had enough, a person at the British Film Institute (BFI) suggested that I collect the material I had written about Godard, maybe add this and that, and publish a little publication about his works after 68.
It must not have been easy to get access to Godard back then?
I knew one person who knew Godard. I asked how to persuade him to give an interview? He advised: go to him with money. Just then another figure from the BFI was going to buy his TV films. I went on the trip with a check for 2000 dollars and intended to bring those films back. Godard and I met on the trains of Nyon at the station. The exchange took just thirty seconds. He is one of the best businessmen in the world. Then I mentioned to him that I would like to write a book. He asked me: "Do you mean a serious book?" I lied: "Yes, a serious book." He said: "Well, if you want to publish a serious book, you can come to the studio and "go through" my papers. I just started working on a new film, you can come to the shoot." This was a man who had been hiding from the public for 10 years. Now I understand that back then, in 1979, he was just about to release his first commercial film. He needed publicity. I contacted the publisher that same night. He immediately agreed to publish the book. I went and spent two days on Godard's set. I could see how great the team spirit was, how much fun everyone was having. I realized that this is what I wanted to do, that I was tired of the academic life. I was very lucky again when, aged 35, I became Head of Film Production at the BFI. I made films for the next 20 years.
In the third film, you talk about television. What is television to you now and what was it before?
When I was a kid, there were only two channels, but I learned a lot about the world back then from television. The question is, how do you make TV and the internet teach instead of showing Donald Trump porn? Television is now focused on the quick fix, the thrill, the 24-hour news cycle. I myself "tune in" three times a day to find out what's new on that Trump soap opera.
How it has changed cinema and what is his future?
It's interesting that documentary has become such an important form. I can't believe the project about John is going to theaters. I started making films back in 1985. The 35mm camera was extremely heavy back then. At least four very well trained people worked with her. Sometimes even they couldn't get it right. Now the cameras do the men's work themselves. On the one hand, this is wonderful. On the other hand, nobody gets the kind of education they used to get anymore. The same goes for mounting. After all, cutting the ribbon was a serious decision! I think people still have a great appetite for going to the cinema, sitting in the dark. Don't underestimate the importance of dating in film history either! I don't see any signs of it going away. Although the economics of film suggest that Hollywood is now making movies with China and Russia, and no longer making movies about America. On the other hand, full-length feature films can now be watched on television. This is a very interesting new form.
Interviewed by Simona Žemaitytė
